Curse

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Ok, then no. AoE AI response was implemented to prevent overfarming. They aren't going back.

EDIT: and i wasn't suggesting they would become Area controllers. I'm telling you what 20 seconds of damage in AoE will become. Thats a set and forget nuke trap.

Sorry, when i was talking about area control i wasnt referring to your post

WasAGuest · Apr 05, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

I like the idea and feel the AoE and AI needs some work. I've said this before in reference to the AI "acting like a player" might. Currently, the AI AoE fix enables the "juggling" of foes. A ranger/ele with zero fire magic can cast Lava Font when he/she gets aggro and the mobs flee from him/her. The spell does nearly no damage at all, but the AI is too dumb to know this. A real player would see the laughable damage of 0-3 and stay swiping at the ranger. - just an example here.

The AI needs to be able to tell when it's in danger and needs to be able to opt to stay or run. Certain mobs could also be given a personality whereas they stay within a fight (AoE or melee for that matter) till they are low on health and then flee. Doing this would give more uses for the cripple/snare line of skills and add some personality to different kinds of mobs. Currently, desert minotaurs act the same way as Shiverpeak Dwarves, only their skills and graphics are different.

Improving the AI in this way (I think at least) would give AoE and other skills some much needed boost without changing anything else.

I agree with Toxic though, AoE is nearly completely uselss other than a "juggle" like spell in PvE in it's current state.

JR · Apr 05, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

I care not for PvP, so i really didnt take that into account,

Sadly this game has to be balanced for PvP.

SpeedyKQ · Apr 05, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I'd rather they kept the AI as is, and kept the spells doing damage per second, but simply buffed them hugely. Like maybe double the damage. Make them good enough that the possible combos with knockdowns and slowdowns are actually worth the trouble.

Xpl0iter · Apr 05, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

Well they can do what they will with SS, come on, do you really think they'll let SS STAY this powerful? And i never said anyhting about SS, it's not considered an AoE spell, im only focusing on those tha are considered AoE

Toxic, for people who think SS is not considered an AOE spell, I have this thread on another branch of these forums.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3002863

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

If the later, a contitional sign, since AoE does need some help and increased AoE time is one way of rebuffing spells that have been seriously nerfed by Anet.

The only problem i see with this is the hot foot issue in PvP. Increasing spell duration--even at a lose of damage per second--can be abused by pvP groups to create a 20 second trap hitting every 2 seconds; changing PvP dynamic by making certain areas less accessable for a longer period of time. How do you plan to balance that issue?

Only issue i see with time being increased for AoE is that, its a waste. AoE doesn't need *some* help, it needs Hell lotta help, and ANET tends to ignore this issue (assuming since faction preview).
When a foe doesn't stand in an AoE area for even 10 seconds, what is the point of increasing the AoE time at first place?
Correct me if i have gotten your point wrong.
I am not sure how PVP areas work, but i hope word "Spiking" rings a bell. Work arround those to make them less powerful, and AoE will become powerful in same process.
The major use of AoE spells was usualy by elementals, which got badly nerfed since the AI update. Other professions need to be jacked a bit. Nearly every profession in pvp tends to kill an elemental faster than vise versa.
Hence why, eles are being used for *Heal Party* spam, or Wards at most. Havn't seen a better usage yet since the nerf.

Check the link i pasted above, has huge information with the arguments presented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

....As for the multiple AoE spells, it's simple, only allow 1 AoE spell to be active at one time....
....and this triggering time is what i thought would be the best solution....

Uh, when a massive degen can stack, and can be spread through mesmers and necros, whats the issue with multiple aoe spells? their cast time, energy consumptions, and recharge time balances them. Oh, forgot to mention Exhaustion for *eles*. Specially since other professions have been given skills to make exhaustion even worst by spirits and mesmer spell.
I doubt that ANET intends to go back to Old AI system at first place.

@Goonter
A way to balance the skills mentioned could definetly be lesser cast time and recharge time. Mind you, not just the Area controlling. Nukers were never created to *control certain areas* and not *kill the foes in area*.
The SS affect that you mentioned, makes whole lot of sense too, been yelling the same thing in different posts. if a foe can take MoP into consideration and scatter, why not SS? SS is the only reason which basically nerfed Ele usage at first place since the nerf. If the AI nerf still exists, but SS scatters too, people will start taking eles into consideration for farming related areas. As for the Rangers with Barrage pet group, Anet needs to work arround Barrage. The skill *is* over powered. I would like to be corrected if someone thinks its not. Any build, which depends on one skill, is over powered in general. Eles never depended on 1 simple skill, but multiple skills being casted 1 after another. Unlike SS, and arcane echo, which are just 2 skills of 8, and leave the rest of the 6 skills free for usage. Barrage, i do not see much of a difference. I have explained in thread link listed above.

@In general
I will put a small idea here which i was discussing with my guild a day back
I will start with a question to you guys though. Why does a fireball scatters a foe? The damage has been done, it is not being repeated over time, and caster is not casting it right away. Just like FoC ( feast of corruption, necro curse elite ) Rodgorts invocation, Metor ( Not MS ), phoenix ( be that close range like inferno or long range like fireball ) I repeat, the damage is *Done* it is not happening over time. Even then, why do these skills scatter the foes? The burning damage also scatters foe, even when it is not being spread by touching the foe that is being burnt (unless used the mesmer elite to spread the condition to foes arround)
But then, Think over this, A spell like Metor shower has its own drawbacks when used, if a foe flies away right after first hit, which is about 3 seconds from the time it *has* been casted, Mind you, ignoring the cast time it self, which makes it total of 6 seconds before the first damage even trigers, caster can easily be interupted, exhaustion, mana consumption, etc etc.

I do not recall my self properly, but, i may have noticed couple of necro spells which actualy use mana when they have been *casted* and not when you actualy click the skill. This method can be applied to all other professions too, and not just eles.
for example, the ele elite spell, Elemental Attunement could be redone this way:

Currently, it reads
For 45 seconds, you are attuned to air, fire, water, and earth. You gain 50% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you use magic associated with any of these elements.

Fixture:
For 45 seconds, you are attuned to air, fire, water, and earth. You gain 50% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you have attempted to cast the magic associated with any of these elements.

What it does is, i have clicked Rodgorts Invocation, and the moment i clicked, 25 mana is gone, but if Ele attune was On, i get 12 mana back right away, and the spell continues to cast. Now if this spell is interupted, it wont hurt an ele that bad.
This will help an ele, even when interupted by a ranger or mesmer, or necro even, to have some energy left (be that 50% of the actual mana requirement), unlike metor shower spending 25 mana, 60 recharge, exhaustion included being wasted on a spell which was not even casted.
Let the Attribute specific attunements do what they do, give mana back only when the spell has been casted.
Over all, there are quite many ways to deal with an issue, than just nerfing the shit out of spells and, not just spells in this case, a whole attribute line, a profession. If ANET has issues while coming up with the ideas to deal with a problem like solo farming, discuss with beta testers, and players on forums.
Until Eles can be used to dishout the damage affectively in presence of other professions like other professions do, the game will remain unbalance, and unfavourable for elementalists.
Reason i am not including smiting spells here, is because it is the least used type of attribute in pvp, and in groups.
I will end my post here for now, already too long.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

Toxic RD · Apr 05, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Oh man, thats alot to reply to, i ned to stretch my fingers

Xpl0iter · Apr 06, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

Oh man, thats alot to reply to, i ned to stretch my fingers

I know how you feel my friend :/

hence, my second last line in last post.

heh

Regardz
An Elementalist.